Episode 4 transcript

It’s very likely that if you are around the Siper’s Alley Gen-X age round about your 50s, you probably aren’t sleeping as well as you used to. I think that’s fair enough to say, isn’t it? I think that’s absolutely fair enough to say you’re probably not sleeping as well, and you’re certainly not sleeping, so you’re not sleeping as deeply, and you’re also probably waking up in the night or waking up much earlier. That’s it.

And if that is the case, you are about to learn some really good stuff because we are talking to Sarah Williamson, who’s a nutritional therapist and has been for over 25 years. In other words, she knows her shit. She’s got some really good tips. She’s got some really good tips.

And also, I think, you know, you can feel absolutely delirious with sleep deprivation. It’s not a it’s not a small thing. And she tells us why you feel so terrible. And what to do about it.

That’s it. And we talk supplements. We talk about how food allergies can, affect your sleep, about fasting and timing your evening meals. We do a bit of woo or true.

We will try to to try and dispel some myths. And what what I should say as well, actually, is that just because we’re doing, sleep on this episode, it’s not like we’re not going to revisit it. So. So for this one, we’re kind of very much looking at it from a kind of nutrition angle, like what you shove into your big pie hole.

I’m projecting it has an effect on your sleep or lack of it, but we might do another episode where we talking about how stress affects your sleep. Or so just because we’re doing this angle this time doesn’t mean we won’t come back to it. There are some really, really difficult issues that people are facing when it comes to sleep. Yeah, it was really nice to get some questions in from people who’ve been listening to the podcast.

So thank you for your contributions. Especially one of them came in via a voice note. We love voice notes. We love a voice note.

If you want to get in touch, if you just go to snipers-alley.co.uk co.uk get in touch via there, you can WhatsApp us, seek an email. We’re on Instagram. We’re all over the shop, all the usual. I’m tired today.

Are you tired today? I’ve been waking up so early, so early. But my problem, my problem at the moment is normally I can kind of out like a light at ten and if I wake up early, that’s not a problem. I’m still waking up at my normal time, but I can’t get to sleep because it’s so bloody hot.

What time’s your wake up time? About 5. I tend to wake up. I’m a half 4. 5.

Yeah, I’m five, I’m 5, 530. And I’ll just get up and that’s fine. If I’m. If I’m in bed by ten, that’s a pretty good night’s sleep for me.

But at the moment I’m not getting I’m not getting to sleep until 12, 1:00 because it’s just too hot. So we’re all a bit delirious in this kind of endless heatwave, and everybody’s sleep is affected and we’re all going a little bit mad. So if we’re not, if we’re not bringing our usual energy, it’s because of what exactly what we’re about to talk about, which is sleep. Yeah.

Let’s let’s hear from Sarah now. So we we started off by asking Sarah, just kind of some of the basics of why do we need sleep and what happens when we don’t get enough sleep is really important. And we’ll just simplify it so that, you know, doesn’t get too techie, simply important for two things. One, it’s really important for your metabolic health.

So that is how your body feels itself. So the better sleep you have, the better fuel partitioning you have. And your you run like a hybrid car so you can burn glucose sugar, or you can burn fat, and that those two function really well under better sleep. The second part is sleep allows you to cleanse your brain.

There’s a whole glute is called I think it’s called a clem fat system. It allows the brain to cleanse. So when you’ve had poor sleep, one of the things that shows up first is your brain. You just it doesn’t just quite function quite as well.

It’s a bit sluggish. You forget things, you forget names. And sometimes the memory connections don’t fit properly together. So you find your memory, particularly your short term memory struggles.

A bit. But there is one thing I try and do and that’s not over focus and cause people lose anxiety about problems with sleep because one of the things anyone who sleeps badly knows is the more time they spent worrying about not sleeping, it feeds into them not sleeping, I think. Yeah, I was going to ask you about this because I was I very briefly went on a kind of sleep programme. I went to the GP because of my terrible sleep a while back, and I go put on this sleep thing, which I, which I did look at reviews and some people swore by it.

I was one of the people who just did not work for at all. And part of the reason it didn’t work is because when you start doing sleep diaries and logging your terrible night’s sleep, the anxiety and it’s such a vicious circle, isn’t it? And like you say, if you can’t get to sleep, if you’re thinking about getting to sleep. And that’s why I get really worried about people wearing all the tech.

But also they use an LED light. So if you look in an aura ring or whatever, they have a little area watch, they have a little LED light. And for some people, when they tested putting an LED light on the back of their leg behind their need, for example, it’s light sensitive folks, which are a lot of insomniac types. They interrupted their sleep.

So again, you’ve got a the thing and then the watch flashing and telling you you’ve had a terrible night’s sleep, which then feeds into your psychology of the next day. Oh my God, my sleep was bad. I’m going to die a week on Friday because I haven’t slept. And off we go.

So I, I think, you know, when you’ve had a good night’s sleep, I don’t think we need tech to tell us when we’ve had a good night’s sleep. You wake feeling rested and you’re ready to hit the day. It’s very simple. You know, we’re obviously, Snipers Alley.

What we’re doing here is all about, you know, this, this time of life round about your 50s. And is it the case that just when you hit this age, you’re going to have problems? Okay, I went to this, I went to this theatre thing a while back, and there was a very much a kind of Gen X audience. And the it was a it was Adam Buxton, do this podcasting live.

And at the start, just when he was warming everyone up, he said, right, hands up. If you were in your 50s and everyone put their hands up and he said, put your hands down. If you sleep through the night and everyone that everyone stayed up, it’s such a common thing. And so, presumably there’s reasons for that.

Like what? Why? Why are so many of us having trouble with it? So what tends to happen?

And obviously, you know, key focus for me is menopausal women, but it’s really related to midlife. Like what tends to happen, particularly related to the weird bizarre from our biology perspective. Modern world we live in is we start to build up a series of low level dysfunction. So one of the ones we look at, and it’s the most common reason, I think, for people waking in the night and not being able to get back to sleep.

So there’s two forms of insomnia that I usually say one, I can’t get sleep and that’s usually fairly easily resolved. But the other one that can get sticky is I fall asleep within x number of minutes, and then I wake up some time between 2 and 5 a.m. and I can’t go back to sleep. And sometimes I fall back to sleep for 40 minutes for the alarm goes off and I can hardly wake up. I yeah, it’s really interesting you say that, Sarah, because one of the we’ve been asking people to get in touch when we, we knew we’re going to be speaking to you and Simon in Oxfordshire.

I have a message in back. I need to find out how old he is. And he’s 52, so, mate, so makes me I this question was. Yeah, exactly.

What you talking about. How to stay asleep. I go out like a light and wake up at about 2 or 3. I listen to the radio with near phone and fall back off.

And this, from what you’re saying is, is common. It’s really common. And there are a few factors. But the most common factor, if we think about what happens over sleep for most of us, is the longest period of time we go without eating.

And what should happen is your body should be able to fuel overnight so you have so a low level production of cortisol, it drops off. But cortisol everyone gets cortisol. Bad rap is necessary for life. It’s just that Goldilocks thing.

It just needs to be in the right amount. And cortisol job is to provide you glucose and fuel overnight. If you get low in fuel because you have something called insulin resistance, which is I’ll talk about in a second. What then happens is your body uses adrenaline.

It’s like I got enough fuel. I need to train Alan and journalling gives you quick fuel, but it wakes you straight back up so you could get up and do my day. Now, other signs of insulin resistance are also really tied to common mid-life health issues. So your waist gets larger as you store fat round your middle.

You might be hungrier. You have more sugar cravings, you get brain fog. You can’t remember people’s names. Nouns are the thing that go first.

So you’re like, you know, what’s her? You know, her name. That is just a sign of your brain not having enough fuel if you think this is you. So if your waist is more than half of your height, or you’ve definitely put on a bit around the middle, you are by definition, insulin resistant.

You then needs to understand that you struggle to fuel, carbohydrates. So it’s carbohydrates are bread, flour, potatoes, sugary foods, sugary drinks, lots. You know, not just things you eat, things you drink to. And it means you’re struggling.

So what your body does is it gets all this glucose into the system and it’s like, okay, we’ve got a load of glucose. So what you need to do is train your body to become more insulin sensitive, i.e. insulin, which is the key to get the fuel into the cells, starts working really well again. So the fuel goes in quickly and if it’s delayed, it stores as body fat so you get fatter and hungrier. So if you reduce the amount of carbohydrate you’re eating, increase the protein you’re eating and have a bit of healthy fat on the side.

So you’re eating green leafy veg, fibrous veg, loads of protein. Don’t worry about how much you’re eating in the protein department. It’s very hard to pay for eat and then you know better, but a bit of olive oil. But if you know what I call the great grandmother fats.

Fats your mother would grandmother would have recognised and eat 3 or 4 meals a day. You will rapidly improve your insulin sensitivity and you will start sleeping through the night. There will be a small adjustment period where it gets a bit worse because your body’s having to start with learning to fuel using fat and glucose again, but it will work beautifully and I assume the timing of food as well. That’s really matter.

But we’ve seen a lot of is people fasting so fast things become incredibly fashionable and in some people it works very well. It tends to work better for men than women, so it can improve insulin sensitivity in men. I don’t think anyone does well if they skip meal and they’ve got a lot of stress. So if you’re a very stressed out male and you haven’t slept for a week, then skipping meals is probably not where you want to go because it pushes your cortisol up.

And the same for women. I often see women, they start fasting, they go, yeah, I felt good. I skipped a meal and then it stops working and then they just push harder. So they push that meal out further.

They don’t eat till 3:00 in the afternoon, then they eat all the things in the cupboard because they’ve got too hungry. And then we’re in a vicious cycle. So I think fasting can be helpful, but not if you’re already under stress timings wise. Late meals.

This can be a difficult one and it’s a bit of a circuit. And see in the sense that eating very late can obviously keep digestion running and that can interfere with your sleep. The early part of sleep. But if you’re struggling to fuel overnight, eating too early means you’re trying to go from six till six in the morning.

For some people, while they’re getting their insulin sensitivity working, and that’s too long. So you probably need to have a main meal around six, 630, and then temporarily, you might add, in something small later in the evening. That’s really interesting, because I do think one of the things that I’ve noticed about turning 50, it feels like so if I’ve eaten late, it feels like I’ve given my body the choice between digesting my food and sleeping like it can do. It can it can pick one.

It can’t pick both, you know, and like, do you remember the days when we used to go out for dinner and be at a friend’s house and we wouldn’t stop finish? We were ready until, like 11 and drink? Can, you know, I’d have a double espresso or something and I’d be I’d still sleep, I’d be fine. And now it’s like if I eat after eight, I can’t sleep like everything.

The really interesting thing is, if you persistently have this fuelling issue, that fuelling issue affects every cell in your body, including your digestive function, your brain, your skin, your hair, everything. Because all of your cells are reliant on fuel to do whatever the or the enzyme pathways to do whatever they need to do. So again, what we see in women and men as they get older is the digestive system starts to under function. Their liver starts to under function like nothing works quite right.

You can’t exactly put your finger on it, but you know it just nowhere near as good as you were when you were 20. However, if you pay attention to the fuelling and a few of the other things we’ll probably talk about, you can get a lot of that back. It’s not, oh, this is a dead, We just have to live with it forever. You just have to work a bit harder.

And unfortunately, in the weird environment we live in where we never get outside, we eat food that is a long way distant from where it came from, or sometimes ever even being real food. They’re food like substances. As someone said to me once, that’s how, you know, everyone’s very critical of, oh, it’s everyone’s just fat and lazy and they don’t do this. They don’t do that.

But life is much easier, even in the 70s, to be healthy. You know, TV didn’t turn on till 5:00. You had two channels. You ate real food because processed food did not exist to the extent it does now.

It just wasn’t so difficult. Again, don’t be too critical of yourself. Just pull in and you just need to pull enough strings to get the shit to turn. And then you start to feel good.

When we knew you were coming on Sara, we we asked people to get in touch with their questions. Some of them have come through on voice notes, like this one from Claire. I’ve been having loads of trouble sleeping recently, and lots of people I’ve spoken to have suggested and recommended. I take magnesium.

But to be honest, it’s a bit of a minefield. There are so many different types and I’m not really sure where to start. Claire, that was a lovely question. I get asked a lot about magnesium, so magnesium comes in many forms for sleep.

I tend to use magnesium, glycine eight or magnesium based class and eight. And the reason is it can be really helpful a because it supports insulin sensitivity that we’ve just been talking about. But B it also works in the brain because glycine works on something called the gap, a receptor gap whose job is to switch off. Overthinking it affects women sometimes a little bit more this life stage because progesterone supports gap of function.

So if you don’t ovulate so you’re either menopausal, you’ve got trouble oscillating. You don’t get that support with the Gaba receptor. Men also have issues sometimes on that Gaba receptor. Men have the same sex hormones as women just in different amounts.

So they still have progesterone and oestrogen in their women’s still have testosterone. So when we use glycine it because the glycine part acts on that Gaba receptor. So that’s useful. And magnesium allows muscular relaxation.

So when you pull a muscle you tense your arm, you use calcium. And when you relax a muscle you use magnesium. So if you’re low in magnesium you’re unable to relax. A lot of people carry a lot of tension around their neck, shoulders, jaw for example, and magnesium can be really helpful for that.

So, there are lots of ways it can also lower blood pressure and other things that are really useful for supporting good health. So magnesium is great. However, if you take magnesium and it’s not making a big difference, don’t just keep upping the dose. It doesn’t.

You don’t suddenly get better. This thing of something’s good. Therefore more is always better. Which means that, it doesn’t.

It isn’t working. So keep the magnesium in there. But if that’s not resolved that there’s other things of that. So we will have a little bit of a pill of the onion and see what else might be going on.

And how should you take magnesium so you can use magnesium orally. And for a lot of people it’s really helpful because it also helps that muscle relaxation so it can get the bone moving. And it can also allow water to be drawn into the mouth. So for people who struggle with constipation, magnesium is miraculous minerals.

Magnesium in particular is really well absorbed through the skin. So you can spray you get these magnesium sprays. I think there’s a company I have no no ties to any supplement companies, but better you is one we use a lot. You can spray it on your body.

I think they use magnesium chloride for that. It’s very well absorbed through the skin. I had some magnesium butter, which I had to stop using because my dog went nuts for it. So now that I haven’t had so magnesium butter is the same.

It’s the magnesium chloride. I remove the powder actual butter and I think I don’t know. But anyway, the dog was just like, this is amazing. And she’d go like a little bit weird and kept trying to like let my feet in, like, hump my feet.

So it had a really weird effect on my dog. Okay, stick with the spray and really stick with the spray. Once it was didn’t have that effect on your husband. You’ll be fine.

No, he wasn’t. He. It didn’t make it didn’t make him hump my feet at all. He wasn’t.

He was unaffected. It was just a dog. She was absolutely nuts for it. I’m mean, when you get to Snipers Alley, beggars can’t be choosers.

Now, I think there was another thing that causes people to wake up in the night. So we’ve done insulin, we’ve looked at magnesium. But there is another thing that affects quite a lot of people, and that’s allergies and histamine intolerance. So if you’ve got food allergies and these can be intolerances, it doesn’t mean you have an allergic reaction to a peanut, that kind of thing that clearly would affect your sleep.

But you’ve got these kind of intolerances, this situation where the body is producing an immune reaction of some description to a food. But people with these kind of issues are two and a half to four and a half times more likely to struggle with insomnia is a big deal. They’re six times more likely to be sleepy in the day, so even when they sleep, they’re not that rested. So this is a big deal.

Now, how do you know whether this is you? So there’s loads of very expensive food allergy testing out there. And you can draw blood and you can use labs and all the things. But none of them have been shown to be that effective and very rarely to to ever match.

So therefore the best way of doing it is to remove what I call the key culprits from your diet for a couple of weeks and then reintroduce them the key offenders in this department, I think the number one is dairy and gluten. They are the two that I see that really affect sleep. Dairy, weirdly, is really common and I don’t know what it is about it. But when people cut out dairy, they suddenly they start waking in the night really quickly.

Let’s just go through the top kind of things. You can think about that might be causing issues. Dairy number one, I’d go eggs on gluten. You can choose which way around you do those chocolate nuts and sometimes people struggle with citrus fruits.

Those are the kind of big ones. Just go for two weeks, cut it out and just see if your sleep gets better and you can get past that little hump in the night. Histamine is. Most people have heard about it in relation to hay fever, antihistamines, all of those things.

But histamine is a natural substance produced in the body. Really important for digestive functions. Had good levels of stomach acid. You need histamine for orgasm.

You need a histamine so that you know it’s not so without uses. But when you’ve got it in excess, then you can have be problematic and it can cause real sleep issues. Say what people tend to do who’ve got histamine too much, they tend to never really get into deep sleep, and they flutter in and out of sleep for a lot of the night, and then they might end up waking up at 3:00 in the morning, emptying the dishwasher with histamine temporarily. We recommend lowering your histamine load by lowering foods that are high in histamine.

The foods that are high in histamine are foods that are fermented. They have had exposure to bacteria, or they’ve been aged in some way. So that can be leftovers. Or it can mean wine and cheese.

There was something that you said earlier and something that Rob said to me, that I want to kind of explore with. You see, you were saying, be really careful that your body doesn’t get used to the idea that it needs less sleep. Yeah. So that’s really intriguing because a spectrogram, I said, why do we feel so terrible when we don’t sleep well?

Like I feel hung over. I feel like my skin is almost crawling. It feels really weird. And Rob said he doesn’t know I feel awful about 18 months of awful sleep.

And I just exactly what you said before, Sarah, I can I can get off to sleep, no problem at all. And then pretty much every two hours or every 90 minutes, I’m awake. And exactly like he said, I could do a day’s work. I don’t feel rough.

I could get up at 2:00, and I feel like I could kind of do pretty much anything. And it’s gone on for so long. And yeah, we were talking about it and I was saying, like, I feel fine, but I, I presume I’m not. It’s so it’s hard.

It’s very hard to gauge. It is hard to gauge. I think there’s two things. One, I think with your case, Emilie, we know histamines a big part of that pattern.

So when you’re not sleeping, you don’t clear the histamine as well. And also that hangover feeling comes from your brain not getting its kind of cleansing routines. Interesting. The natural sleep cycle is in in around 90 minutes.

So what Rob staying is he’s waking up at the end of the natural sleep cycle. And so he’s not feeling terrible when he wakes up, because you feel truly terrible when you’re woken up in the middle of the deep sleep cycle. Right. And so you feel like someone’s hit you over the head.

You’re kind of what you’re doing is you’re cycling in and out of these 90 minute cycles. So the other thing that people and this week I had a client this week who’d you know, she emailed me. She’s like, had this. And now she’s an old client.

She goes, I’ve had this disaster. I can’t sleep at all. I wake up and I’m sleeping for about two hours and then I can’t get back to sleep. And, you know, her sleep cycle.

It sounds like she’s going through the similar sleep cycle thing. I said, okay, when you wake up, take half a teaspoon of salt, put it in your water, drink it, and she’s back to sleep in ten minutes. Because some people, if their blood pressure drops off for there’s low electrolytes because sodium is used. You are an electrical creature.

You’re basically a battery. You’re water and salt and potassium. You are a walking battery. And that’s why we’re influenced by all the electronics that go on in the world and is actually why we have a huge field around our body that we notice when people step into it, because we are electrical beings and, you know, we can’t see that.

But that’s how we function in the world. And so salt and sodium and potassium are so important. And for a lot of us, particularly on hot, sweaty nights or we drink loads of water, we must be good. We all drink 2 to 3l of water and we just wash out our electrolytes because we then don’t add any salt in.

And particularly the more people try to move towards a healthy diet, they take out all processed food and naturally their salt disappears and everybody needs at least a teaspoon of salt a day. That’s really interesting. Yeah, because I think I have a very low salt diet. Okay.

So tonight Rob experiment a small glass of water, half a teaspoon of salt, a quarter of a teaspoon of salt. Swirl it round. When you wake up drink it. See how quickly you get back to sleep.

Amazing. Yeah I’ll give it a crack. Yeah, that is amazing. And if it starts to work, then, you know, adding more salt to your diet.

And if you’re cooking from Whole Foods, I literally get people to put in a little, ceramic dish or a teacup or something, a tablespoon, a teaspoon of salt and make sure they’ve had it because salt had quite a bad press, really, hasn’t it? Because it has. And so it’s another one of these things, you know, that the advice has been, you know, have margarine and not butter. So the word celery comes from the word salt because Roman soldiers were paid in salt because it was so valuable.

So I think it’s always important to understand that when food gets looked at in science, it gets looked in a very narrow box. Often the studies are very weak, so they go all this population, they’re all vegetarian and they live to, you know, longer, longer. But the vegetarians tend not to smoke. They do yoga, they do a load of other things that may contribute to longevity, that are nothing to do with being vegetarian.

And that’s how a lot of very poor studies arise. And that’s actually how the studies around red meat being very bad for you has a reason. They’re related to correlating studies. So a lot of red meat eaters are naturally rebellious.

And they smoke and they do all the things. So therefore they have issues with their health. It’s nothing to do with the red meat. Red meat’s been part of our diet since the beginning of time.

That’s how we, you know, we’ve lived on the planet, is hunting big hairy grass, feeding animals. And so we do our body knows exactly what to do with red meat. But if you combine red meat with smoking, drinking, doing all the things, well, it’s not going to be so good for you. There’s nothing wrong with any of these things.

It’s just about having them in the right balance. Yeah. And you can see if we do years of a lower sodium diet or we’ve had something that happened which has kicked our histamine into, into being too high or, you know, we’ve had persistent high carbohydrate diet and then, you know, the will start to come off is why mid 50s are more challenging. But it is a golden chance to go.

I’ve got some symptoms. I’m not going to ignore them. I’m going to actually unravel it. And that is absolutely the whole point of Snipers Alley is absolutely.

The whole point of it is that we’re not going to ignore stuff anymore because we want to have a good decade in our 60s, and we want to have a good decade in our 70s to kind of get to grips with the stuff. Now we know the direction of travel, and suddenly we are all definitely going to die. Oh fucking hell, Sarah, that’s really put a downer on this. We were having a lovely chat.

We were getting on so well, but we all know it’s a Dexa, but it’s then how you live. Like, what you want to do is live really well. Have a bad three weeks and fall off your perch. That’s what you look at.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. You are not looking for I want to feel really unwell for 15 years. Yeah.

And live with some kind of chronic disease which I then have to be medicated for, which then has side effects for ever. Me and Emilie really toying with this idea of taking something called we or true, which is basically, you know, kind of common things that you hear. Is it way or is it true? So very quickly wearing socks good for sleep because your feet get warm when you cool down or something.

That’s one I’ve heard we will. True true ish. So what we find is to get to sleep and why hot water bottle works is it raises your core temperature and then as it cools, your core temperature drops and it’s the dropping of the core temperature. It’s the change in the temperature that encourages you to drop off to sleep.

So if you’re cold and the core temperature is a bit low, then getting a bit warm up will help you sleep. Excellent. We will try to Sarah getting out first thing in the morning in the sunshine. Very important.

Glad you mentioned it. Sunlight’s. Morning sunshine. Really important without your glasses.

And evening sunlight. So as the sun sets, the red light of the morning and the day, and maybe a bit in the midday that are really going to help reset your circadian rhythm and encourage healthy sleep. Sarah, this Spain, I mean, we could go on for hours genuinely. And if you would come on again, it would be so good to talk some more.

I would love to. Come on. I’m happy to talk on all topics. Cyprus.

Sally and book. So I really hope that that means some people might be able to sleep. I hope so, there’s so much really, really helpful information there. So thank you very much to Sarah for talking to us.

And like we mentioned before, just because we spoke to Sarah that we’re not saying, right. Oh we’re done. Sleep now. We’ll never come back to it is plenty more.

So it’s one of those ones that I’m sure will go back to speaking of things that are happening in the future, the next episode of sniper Sally is going to be, we’re not going to have a guest, it’s going to be me and M, and it’s all going to be about the differences between generations. That’s right. Well, principally, I think Gen X and millennials. So before anyone says anything, look yeah, it’s broad strokes okay.

We’re not saying that just because you’re born one year you’re completely different and whatever. But there are I think there are Gen X traits. And I think there are millennial traits. Are we going to lean into that a little bit?

And we would love you to get in touch. So so one of the things we won’t talk about it properly now, but one of the things that me and M were discussing the other day is like hugging, especially in kind of professional environments. Like hugging is kind of like it’s a lot more of a thing now, and it seems to have kind of be from the more millennial end of things. Yeah.

I mean, we’re not talking about helping people that you love. We’re not we’re okay with that. We’re not boomers. Yeah.

We’re talking about hugging somebody that you’ve never met before and how you feel about that and whether or not you think that that is an acceptable greeting socially or professionally. So you’re in the workplace. I will share a story that I’ve heard that honestly, my jaw dropped. I couldn’t believe somebody would do this.

And I will talk about me and, and hugging think, because I think there’s a dynamic that that’s quite interesting. And I have a theory about that as well. I look forward to that. So this is a that’s just an example.

So it’s the things that kind of are a little bit different between the generations. We realise broad strokes stereotyping. We we are aware of this. It’s just a bit of fun.

Yeah. We like to keep it shallow to be honest. So we would love to hear your views on this if that’s kind of sparked. Any thoughts to get in touch, especially if it’s a voice note?

We love voice notes. We love voice notes. If we use your voice note on the podcast, we’ll send you a Sniper’s Alley mug. Yes, it’s bribery, but it’s not beneath us.

So to get in touch, it’s Sniper’s Alley. Co.Uk okay, we’re on Instagram, which is Sniper’s Alley podcast, but yeah, what are those kind of Gen-X millennial differences? Or if you completely disagree and just think now everyone’s the same. This is this is like this is horoscopes.

This is like saying, oh, you’re like this because you’re a Capricorn. Yeah. And that’s bollocks. Different times have a different times.

And how are those different times made different people. And I think it’s kind of okay to say there are certain sort of things, social contagion, things like hugging that have become normal to some people, that are not normal to other people. And my thesis is, if you will allow me to present it, is that Gen Xers are not natural huggers. So that has been a little taste of Ted talk and forthcoming PhD.

Gosh, I’m so much fun. And if you would like to contribute to this, or if you can think of any other noticeable differences between the generations, we would be very interested in hearing from you. These are the important issues of the day that we need to spend our time analysing. I’m almost convinced.